A Facebook Conversation
Here is a conversation that I had with two of my Facebook Friends. I have not edited the conversation except to take their names out to protect them. One person says that she is a Christian and the other is a non-believer. I believe that this conversation is a good representation of goes on all across this country. My FB Friend says that she believes that Jesus Christ is the son of God, she also says that the Holy Bible is just a book written by men and is not the inspired word of God. I wonder what you think about this issue. In the Holy Bible Jesus Christ says that there is only one way to the Father (GOD) and that is through Him.
I have laid myself wide open here. I believe that I should not have engaged in this conversation as an argument, what do you think?
Daniel In a conversation with Facebook Friend 1 I am curious as to why you bother to quote which you don't believe. You say that everybody is going to be in heaven even without the acceptance of Jesus Christ. That negates the need for the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross. Just curious.
Facebook Friend 2 Heaven is going to be quite the place, if the only criteria is the acceptance of Jesus Christ. You'll have murderers, pedophiles and most importantly, you'll be rubbing shoulders with Hitler.
Daniel I don't know who will be there as I don't get to judge the hearts of people that is for God alone. And you are quite correct there will be people there who have sinned, in fact all will have sinned. There are none without sin. The grace God allows for repentance and the acceptance of Jesus Christ. Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6 the Holy Bible NIV
Facebook Friend 2 He also said "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." So, I suppose there won't be any representatives from the top 2% who are so greedily taking money from us all>
Facebook Friend 1 Daniel, our journey in life is personal, isn't it? I've met hundreds of "Christians" in my lifetime who accepted Jesus Christ through fear and indoctrination. They have no understanding of His love, but go along with the crowd. Jesus in America has become a white man driving a big truck and sporting a well-equipped gun rack. "All those who claim to be, ain't."
Facebook Friend 2 Absolutely FB Friend 1. Just because someone says they accept Jesus Christ doesn't mean they really do. In my opinion, the biggest hypocrites around are often "religious".
Facebook Friend 1 In America today, Christians believe that Jesus loves rich men more than the poor. I watch everyday as so-called Christians rail against the evils of Islamic law, while signing up for Conservative conferences on how to apply Biblical truths to government policy. So ironic! They want a Christian theocracy here in America. .
Facebook Friend 1 To sum up, the Christian "base" here in America are not witnesses for Jesus Christ -- not the one I love. I will NOT join those ignorant authoritarians who force Jesus down people's throats by threatening them with hellfire. I will live my own life loving as Jesus taught.
Facebook Friend 2 I am a non-believer, but FB Friend 1.. the kind you describe is the kind of Christian I look up to.
Facebook Friend 1 We hear a lot about "Judeo-Christianity" nowadays and the evil of Islam. Yet no one looks at which societies are actually more devout. Research who the top hedge-fund managers are -- any Muslims?
Facebook Friend 1 Christians are being led to lick the boots of criminal corporations. I tell you, Daniel, being a Christian is very difficult these days -- because the great majority are hypocrites, ignorant beyond imagination, racists, warmongering bigots. They do NOT reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ, so don't come here to challenge me with this "Jesus or hell" argument. The Jesus I recognize likely has little resemblance to the one you know!
Daniel You are certainly correct. That however does not change what the Holy Bible (the Word of God) says. Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Jesus Christ said that there would be many who claim to be believers and are not. That does not change the truth of the Bible.
I am very happy that I don't make the judgement. Only God can judge the heart of man or woman. I believe that he will judge because His word says that he will.
All you say about hypocrisy is true. The so called believer does not make the Word of God untrue. John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands." We don't do a very good job here and I am so happy for the grace of God when I fall short.
Facebook Friend 1 Jesus Christ fed the hungry masses without question. I don't recall him demanding a drug test of the poor masses he fed.
Daniel Oh my. Of course he fed the hungry masses. These were the people who listening to him the were hungry because they had left their work to hear him. They had been working.
Facebook Friend 1 Where are the jobs in America?
Facebook Friend 1 Daniel, this march to label the poor in America as lazy, welfare recipients -- as well as demanding the dismantling of middle class safety nets -- while enriching the rich -- will lead us where? The wealthiest can only work to take and take, their profit margins must increase every year to please their shareholders. How will they accomplish that profit margin? They are paid to move jobs overseas by American taxpayers who desperately need those jobs. The dismantling of unions will give workers no recourse -- they will essentially have no voice in response to whatever the corporations demand. Insurance companies will deny services in every possible way they can. Education is now being turned into "for-profit institutions" where the bottom line will be increasing share-holder profit. Social services that help the poorest are being cut. Prisons are being privatized -- a folly already in US history -- when profit is the goal, on whose backs will that profit be exacted?
Yet military budgets increase. In America, we are seeing our country go backwards -- a march meant to dis-empower the poor and create a society much like other 3rd world countries around the globe. A few rich will rule a small middle class and a huge population of impoverished. Yet, conservatives blindly allow this to happen -- fed by misleading propaganda that blames those below them for the deficit. Christians are the main group who belong to the TEA party and the Republican party -- their veiled racism and often open bigotry will bring the end to what we've known as an open, free society where equality was respected.
Facebook Friend 2 Hear hear!!!
Daniel So now we have moved from is the Word of God in Holy Bible true? To class conflict. This is a broken fallen world that is filled with imperfect people who do evil things. God made provision for that. From John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Facebook Friend 1 I will not use Bible verses to calm the masses, while these criminals ruin my country. The reason for this folly can actually be traced back to Christianity itself -- Christians are largely raised in authoritarian homes where "daddy knows best" and "all we need to do is trust in the Lord".
Christians have MINDS, yet they are allowing this dismantling of their own country -- distracted by demonization of those below them. Daniel, we all live on welfare! You are likely a home owner. You likely get more mortgage interest tax breaks than a single welfare mom gets in a year. Yet, you would deny her children subsistence and care -- and quietly enjoy your tax break.
Facebook Friend 1 So, the parable was about "rewarding hard work"?
Daniel The parable is about trusting God for the solutions it nothing to do with work.
Facebook Friend 1 Well, Daniel, I guess conservatives trust in a God who makes 4 billion in hedge funds last year -- dismantling American businesses while betting that the businesses will fail. Yes, Christians think that guy EARNS his money!
Daniel FB Friend 1 you have accused me of making unfounded assumptions and now you do just that. I have owned homes and have taken the legal deductions for mortgage interest. The provision for that tax deduction was made to encourage home ownership by more people. I made some very poor financial choices and ended up losing my home now I am renting. I am all for feeding children and I have never said that we should not do that. I am about finding a way to do it in way that will move the person into self-sufficiency. What is wrong with self-sufficiency?
Daniel FB Friend 1 I am sorry, I have allowed this discussion to get off track.
The question is; is the Holy Bible the Word of God? Is it true? If it is then what is needed for salvation?
I believe that the Holy Bible is the Word of God. I believe that repentance of sin, belief in and acceptance Jesus Christ is required for salvation. I know that I am a sinner past, present, and future. Because of the Grace of God I have salvation.
From what you have said you don't believe that the acceptance of Jesus Christ is necessary. Do you believe that everybody will be in heaven?
Facebook Friend 1 Daniel, when I get to heaven, God will hopefully answer a lot of questions that I have. I don't know the answer to your question. I pray that heaven makes a lot more sense than earth!
Daniel Are you saying that you don't know what you believe about Jesus Christ? Is he necessary?
Daniel Is the Holy Bible the Word of God and is it true?
Facebook Friend 1 The Bible is a book written by inspired men to help others understand God through their unique historical lens. Other men have translated it, chosen which books to be included and discarded others, and throughout the ages have used it to justify many evils. The Bible should not be taken literally, it informs us, inspires us, but it should never be cherry-picked to support injustice or war.
Facebook Friend 1 Jesus Christ teachings are the most inspiring guidance that I've found Daniel. His message is so simple and clear. I love Jesus. I'm unwilling to throw all others into the fires of hell if they don't profess this "through Jesus journey" -- and honestly, I don't think Jesus would either.
Daniel Is Jesus Christ who he says that He is?
Facebook Friend 1 Yes, I believe He is!
Daniel 16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen. Revelation 22:16-21 NIV
It would seem from this that Jesus Christ thinks the book (scroll) is more than the words of men.
Daniel Do believe the book of Revelation? God promises to throw some into the lake of fire, is He not speaking the truth?
Facebook Friend 1 Do you still believe the sun revolves around the earth and that wearing two kinds of woven cloth is a sin?
Daniel If there is judgement is there not also punishment?
Facebook Friend 1 Is slavery ok if you follow the Bible rules?
Daniel That is very good FB Friend 1 answer a question with a question.
Facebook Friend 1 Do you not eat pork or shrimp?
Facebook Friend 1 I mean, if you are going to claim that it's all true, then let's be realistic.
Daniel How do we know which parts are true?
Daniel Why believe any of it?
Facebook Friend 1 We read it all, use our minds in our historically unique place to allow it to inspire and guide us, love one another, and treat others as we'd want to be treated.
Facebook Friend 1 Well, do you repent each time you eat shrimp?
Daniel So it is okay for me to just believe the parts that I like?
Facebook Friend 1 You do already! Don't tell me you don't!!!!
Daniel “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17
Facebook Friend 1 Yes, fulfill -- through Love. Love of God and love your neighbor.
Daniel Jesus Christ is the new covenant and not about the rabbinical codes. It is hard enough to follow the Ten Commandments.
I love God and I love all men enough to share the truth of the Gospel.
Facebook Friend 1 Me too, Daniel. I choose to do it by example.
Daniel This has been good. I love you with the love of God as a sister in Christ. There are lots of ways to do things here on earth and there is only one way to the Father.
Daniel I must go. Thank you.
Facebook Friend 1 Blessings to you too, Daniel.
I have laid myself wide open here. I believe that I should not have engaged in this conversation as an argument, what do you think?
Daniel In a conversation with Facebook Friend 1 I am curious as to why you bother to quote which you don't believe. You say that everybody is going to be in heaven even without the acceptance of Jesus Christ. That negates the need for the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross. Just curious.
Facebook Friend 2 Heaven is going to be quite the place, if the only criteria is the acceptance of Jesus Christ. You'll have murderers, pedophiles and most importantly, you'll be rubbing shoulders with Hitler.
Daniel I don't know who will be there as I don't get to judge the hearts of people that is for God alone. And you are quite correct there will be people there who have sinned, in fact all will have sinned. There are none without sin. The grace God allows for repentance and the acceptance of Jesus Christ. Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6 the Holy Bible NIV
Facebook Friend 2 He also said "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." So, I suppose there won't be any representatives from the top 2% who are so greedily taking money from us all>
Facebook Friend 1 Daniel, our journey in life is personal, isn't it? I've met hundreds of "Christians" in my lifetime who accepted Jesus Christ through fear and indoctrination. They have no understanding of His love, but go along with the crowd. Jesus in America has become a white man driving a big truck and sporting a well-equipped gun rack. "All those who claim to be, ain't."
Facebook Friend 2 Absolutely FB Friend 1. Just because someone says they accept Jesus Christ doesn't mean they really do. In my opinion, the biggest hypocrites around are often "religious".
Facebook Friend 1 In America today, Christians believe that Jesus loves rich men more than the poor. I watch everyday as so-called Christians rail against the evils of Islamic law, while signing up for Conservative conferences on how to apply Biblical truths to government policy. So ironic! They want a Christian theocracy here in America. .
Facebook Friend 1 To sum up, the Christian "base" here in America are not witnesses for Jesus Christ -- not the one I love. I will NOT join those ignorant authoritarians who force Jesus down people's throats by threatening them with hellfire. I will live my own life loving as Jesus taught.
Facebook Friend 2 I am a non-believer, but FB Friend 1.. the kind you describe is the kind of Christian I look up to.
Facebook Friend 1 We hear a lot about "Judeo-Christianity" nowadays and the evil of Islam. Yet no one looks at which societies are actually more devout. Research who the top hedge-fund managers are -- any Muslims?
Facebook Friend 1 Christians are being led to lick the boots of criminal corporations. I tell you, Daniel, being a Christian is very difficult these days -- because the great majority are hypocrites, ignorant beyond imagination, racists, warmongering bigots. They do NOT reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ, so don't come here to challenge me with this "Jesus or hell" argument. The Jesus I recognize likely has little resemblance to the one you know!
Daniel You are certainly correct. That however does not change what the Holy Bible (the Word of God) says. Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Jesus Christ said that there would be many who claim to be believers and are not. That does not change the truth of the Bible.
I am very happy that I don't make the judgement. Only God can judge the heart of man or woman. I believe that he will judge because His word says that he will.
All you say about hypocrisy is true. The so called believer does not make the Word of God untrue. John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands." We don't do a very good job here and I am so happy for the grace of God when I fall short.
Facebook Friend 1 Jesus Christ fed the hungry masses without question. I don't recall him demanding a drug test of the poor masses he fed.
Daniel Oh my. Of course he fed the hungry masses. These were the people who listening to him the were hungry because they had left their work to hear him. They had been working.
Facebook Friend 1 Where are the jobs in America?
Facebook Friend 1 Daniel, this march to label the poor in America as lazy, welfare recipients -- as well as demanding the dismantling of middle class safety nets -- while enriching the rich -- will lead us where? The wealthiest can only work to take and take, their profit margins must increase every year to please their shareholders. How will they accomplish that profit margin? They are paid to move jobs overseas by American taxpayers who desperately need those jobs. The dismantling of unions will give workers no recourse -- they will essentially have no voice in response to whatever the corporations demand. Insurance companies will deny services in every possible way they can. Education is now being turned into "for-profit institutions" where the bottom line will be increasing share-holder profit. Social services that help the poorest are being cut. Prisons are being privatized -- a folly already in US history -- when profit is the goal, on whose backs will that profit be exacted?
Yet military budgets increase. In America, we are seeing our country go backwards -- a march meant to dis-empower the poor and create a society much like other 3rd world countries around the globe. A few rich will rule a small middle class and a huge population of impoverished. Yet, conservatives blindly allow this to happen -- fed by misleading propaganda that blames those below them for the deficit. Christians are the main group who belong to the TEA party and the Republican party -- their veiled racism and often open bigotry will bring the end to what we've known as an open, free society where equality was respected.
Facebook Friend 2 Hear hear!!!
Daniel So now we have moved from is the Word of God in Holy Bible true? To class conflict. This is a broken fallen world that is filled with imperfect people who do evil things. God made provision for that. From John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Jesus Christ told us John 16:33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
What ever we do here in this earth is a feeble attempt. We should try to help the poor, the question comes how is the best way to do that? Is it helpful for me to give the man on the street money because he says that he is homeless and cannot find a job. The truth is that I should do that without question, if he takes the money and buy booze or drugs is between him and God. That is an individual case. On the society level there needs to be more thinking. All of our "welfare" programs to day have not worked to move people from to not poor. We need to find a better way, if it takes more money okay. Just throwing more money at what we are doing makes no sense.
Facebook Friend 1 I will not use Bible verses to calm the masses, while these criminals ruin my country. The reason for this folly can actually be traced back to Christianity itself -- Christians are largely raised in authoritarian homes where "daddy knows best" and "all we need to do is trust in the Lord".
Christians have MINDS, yet they are allowing this dismantling of their own country -- distracted by demonization of those below them. Daniel, we all live on welfare! You are likely a home owner. You likely get more mortgage interest tax breaks than a single welfare mom gets in a year. Yet, you would deny her children subsistence and care -- and quietly enjoy your tax break.
Facebook Friend 1 So, the parable was about "rewarding hard work"?
Daniel The parable is about trusting God for the solutions it nothing to do with work.
Facebook Friend 1 Well, Daniel, I guess conservatives trust in a God who makes 4 billion in hedge funds last year -- dismantling American businesses while betting that the businesses will fail. Yes, Christians think that guy EARNS his money!
Daniel FB Friend 1 you have accused me of making unfounded assumptions and now you do just that. I have owned homes and have taken the legal deductions for mortgage interest. The provision for that tax deduction was made to encourage home ownership by more people. I made some very poor financial choices and ended up losing my home now I am renting. I am all for feeding children and I have never said that we should not do that. I am about finding a way to do it in way that will move the person into self-sufficiency. What is wrong with self-sufficiency?
Daniel FB Friend 1 I am sorry, I have allowed this discussion to get off track.
The question is; is the Holy Bible the Word of God? Is it true? If it is then what is needed for salvation?
I believe that the Holy Bible is the Word of God. I believe that repentance of sin, belief in and acceptance Jesus Christ is required for salvation. I know that I am a sinner past, present, and future. Because of the Grace of God I have salvation.
From what you have said you don't believe that the acceptance of Jesus Christ is necessary. Do you believe that everybody will be in heaven?
Facebook Friend 1 Daniel, when I get to heaven, God will hopefully answer a lot of questions that I have. I don't know the answer to your question. I pray that heaven makes a lot more sense than earth!
Daniel Are you saying that you don't know what you believe about Jesus Christ? Is he necessary?
Daniel Is the Holy Bible the Word of God and is it true?
Facebook Friend 1 The Bible is a book written by inspired men to help others understand God through their unique historical lens. Other men have translated it, chosen which books to be included and discarded others, and throughout the ages have used it to justify many evils. The Bible should not be taken literally, it informs us, inspires us, but it should never be cherry-picked to support injustice or war.
Facebook Friend 1 Jesus Christ teachings are the most inspiring guidance that I've found Daniel. His message is so simple and clear. I love Jesus. I'm unwilling to throw all others into the fires of hell if they don't profess this "through Jesus journey" -- and honestly, I don't think Jesus would either.
Daniel Is Jesus Christ who he says that He is?
Facebook Friend 1 Yes, I believe He is!
Daniel 16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen. Revelation 22:16-21 NIV
It would seem from this that Jesus Christ thinks the book (scroll) is more than the words of men.
Daniel Do believe the book of Revelation? God promises to throw some into the lake of fire, is He not speaking the truth?
Facebook Friend 1 Do you still believe the sun revolves around the earth and that wearing two kinds of woven cloth is a sin?
Daniel If there is judgement is there not also punishment?
Facebook Friend 1 Is slavery ok if you follow the Bible rules?
Daniel That is very good FB Friend 1 answer a question with a question.
Facebook Friend 1 Do you not eat pork or shrimp?
Facebook Friend 1 I mean, if you are going to claim that it's all true, then let's be realistic.
Daniel How do we know which parts are true?
Daniel Why believe any of it?
Facebook Friend 1 We read it all, use our minds in our historically unique place to allow it to inspire and guide us, love one another, and treat others as we'd want to be treated.
Facebook Friend 1 Well, do you repent each time you eat shrimp?
Daniel So it is okay for me to just believe the parts that I like?
Facebook Friend 1 You do already! Don't tell me you don't!!!!
Daniel “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17
Facebook Friend 1 Yes, fulfill -- through Love. Love of God and love your neighbor.
Daniel Jesus Christ is the new covenant and not about the rabbinical codes. It is hard enough to follow the Ten Commandments.
I love God and I love all men enough to share the truth of the Gospel.
Facebook Friend 1 Me too, Daniel. I choose to do it by example.
Daniel This has been good. I love you with the love of God as a sister in Christ. There are lots of ways to do things here on earth and there is only one way to the Father.
Daniel I must go. Thank you.
Facebook Friend 1 Blessings to you too, Daniel.
Posted by Daniel Harsh at 4/21/2011 1:52 PM 
Categories: Christ, From the heart, Ten Commandments, Human Rights, Jesus Christ, Life, Liberal, Theology, Church, Fellowship, Family, Faith, God, Current_Events, Religious, Christianity Education Faith, Faith Religion Healing Jesus Church Christian, Law, Values, Holy Bible, Peace, Bible
Tags: Christianity Christ Holy Bible
Categories: Christ, From the heart, Ten Commandments, Human Rights, Jesus Christ, Life, Liberal, Theology, Church, Fellowship, Family, Faith, God, Current_Events, Religious, Christianity Education Faith, Faith Religion Healing Jesus Church Christian, Law, Values, Holy Bible, Peace, Bible
Tags: Christianity Christ Holy Bible
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